0:02 [Music] 0:58 this hearing will come to order 1:01 good morning next week Americans will 1:06 honor our nation's veterans who have 1:09 paid the price for our freedom in times 1:12 of conflict and served as our shield in 1:16 times of peace as we will learn today 1:21 one issue that calls for our mediate 1:24 action is to fight a newer enemy facing 1:28 our veterans and that is those 1:31 relentless con artists who seek to rob 1:35 them of their life savings and defraud 1:38 them of the benefits that they have 1:41 earned in service to our country in one 1:45 recent case that con artists operating 1:48 out of Michigan was convicted of 1:51 stealing nearly two hundred thousand 1:53 dollars from 36 victims who thought they 1:57 were donating to charities benefiting 2:00 thicke veterans not only did the 2:03 veterans never see a dime of this money 2:07 the fraudster added insult to injury by 2:11 stealing the victims personally 2:13 identifiable information to commit 2:16 identity theft fortunately through the 2:20 very good work of the US Postal 2:23 Inspection Service this criminal is now 2:27 behind bars veterans and their families 2:31 have a right to expect that the nation 2:34 they served will fight to protect them 2:38 from unscrupulous individuals as the 2:42 AARP says in its bulletin they protected 2:48 us now it's our turn we will hear from 2:53 inspector Carol Harris the acting 2:56 inspector in charge of the 2:59 communications governance and Strategy 3:01 Group at the United States Postal 3:05 Inspection Service 3:07 inspector Harris is also a lieutenant 3:10 colonel and the US Marine Corps Reserves 3:12 who served in Iraq can equate and was 3:16 awarded the Navy Marine Corps 3:18 Commendation Medal he now leads 3:22 operation protect veterans for the 3:25 Postal Inspection Service and will 3:27 discuss its efforts to combat fraud 3:30 targeting our veterans 3:33 inspector Harris good morning chairman 3:36 Collins ranking member Casey and members 3:39 of the committee thank you for holding 3:40 this hearing on veteran related scams my 3:43 name is carol Harris I'm the acting 3:45 inspector in charge responsible for 3:46 communications within the US Postal 3:48 Inspection Service the law enforcement 3:50 crime prevention and Security arm of the 3:53 Postal Service I started my career in 3:55 government service when I joined the 3:56 Marine Corps in 1990 I served 10 years 3:59 of active duty including combat duty in 4:01 Iraq I continued to serve as a Marine 4:04 Corps reservists according to a recent 4:06 AARP survey veterans are twice as likely 4:08 to unknowingly participate in a scam as 4:10 compared to the general population the 4:13 survey also found that the vast majority 4:14 of veterans encounter scams that have 4:16 been tailored just to them these will be 4:19 veteran pension buyouts fake debt 4:21 charities and scams that offer special 4:23 access to veterans benefits but for a 4:26 fee in these cases the scammer makes it 4:29 appear they represent a government 4:30 agency or veteran organization or claim 4:33 that they themselves served in the 4:34 military so they can create a sense of 4:37 affinity imposters like these know that 4:40 members of the military have been 4:41 trained to rely upon and to trust other 4:43 service members and to honor the bonds 4:46 of service another finding from the 4:48 survey found that veterans experience 4:50 post-traumatic stress at a rate more 4:52 than double the general public it can be 4:55 extremely difficult for a veteran to 4:56 recognize when their otherwise good 4:58 judgment has been temporarily clouded by 5:01 what an experienced fraud operator is 5:03 selling in one case postal inspectors 5:06 investigated Jeana policy knee read vets 5:08 to believe she was a certified adviser 5:10 affiliated with the Department of 5:12 Veterans Affairs 5:13 she told older veterans she could boost 5:15 their pensions by making it appear they 5:18 had fewer assets and they really did and 5:20 could then qualify 5:21 for greater government assistance she 5:23 also offered to reinvest her clients 5:25 money in financial products that she 5:28 would control but Palestine he failed to 5:29 warn them 5:30 she was jeopardizing their benefits with 5:32 clever moves like these in reality the 5:35 fraud operator never reinvested the 5:37 money on the veterans behalf she simply 5:39 took the money and spent it on herself 5:41 that is of course until she landed in 5:43 jail in another case a fake charity led 5:46 people to believe their donations would 5:48 help disabled and paralyzed veterans 5:50 especially vets who were vulnerable to 5:53 suicide mr. Foreman and other witness 5:55 here received one of their solicitations 5:57 in his mailbox he generously gave his 6:01 donation never went towards helping 6:03 anyone but the scammers who have been 6:05 referred to the Department of Justice 6:06 for prosecution in 2017 AARP and the US 6:11 Postal Inspection Service launched 6:12 Operation protect veterans since that 6:15 time we've been sharing tips on how vets 6:16 can safeguard their assets and protect 6:18 their personal information with the help 6:20 of veterans organizations libraries 6:22 senior centers in more than 30,000 post 6:24 offices across the country we 6:27 distributed these customized brochures 6:29 and surveys survey has served two 6:31 important purposes first it's a mean for 6:34 veterans to tell us what kinds of scams 6:36 they're seeing but more importantly by 6:40 filling out the survey and returning it 6:42 it's raised their awareness even more we 6:45 believe it's boosted their immunity to 6:46 fraud when postal inspectors are asked 6:49 how can consumers stay safe financially 6:52 we tell them just remember to stop and 6:54 talk if you receive a request to invest 6:57 money or pay a fee or collect a prize or 6:59 send money to someone you've only known 7:00 online find a friend before you reach 7:03 for your wallet people who operate fraud 7:06 schemes are successful because they are 7:08 persuasive and because they've convinced 7:09 us to keep it a secret 7:11 why because scams only work when we're 7:14 isolated from the people we know and 7:16 trust at any age but especially after we 7:19 retire we all need to make sure there's 7:21 an extra pair of eyes on the decisions 7:23 we make about our money we need a 7:25 trustworthy friend or a family member we 7:27 can talk to in the military we refer to 7:30 this person as our foxhole buddy we like 7:32 to say I've got your six think of the 7:34 hands of the clock 7:35 four to twelve and backward at six I've 7:36 got your six is another way of saying 7:38 I've got your back when I was in a 7:40 foxhole 7:41 my buddy was the person I trusted to be 7:43 my eyes when I couldn't see and I did 7:45 the same for him 7:46 my buddy literally was up when I was 7:48 down and when he was down I was up I 7:50 used a lot of military jargon I grew up 7:53 in a household where it was used freely 7:54 my father served in combat in Vietnam 7:56 and my grandfather's served in World War 7:59 two service honor and duty we're a 8:02 household terms used daily when the 8:05 Postal Inspection Service launched 8:06 Operation protect veterans I shared this 8:09 brochure with my dad I told him dad you 8:11 have me to talk to about money matters 8:13 but not everyone has someone to confide 8:16 in 8:17 maybe you can help others pass this 8:20 brochure to your friends be a foxhole 8:22 buddy for someone else before I conclude 8:25 I want to thank the committee for its 8:26 efforts to stop fraudulent phone calls 8:28 we know the scams don't just happen over 8:31 the telephone line but the ease with 8:34 which a telemarketer can influence 8:36 others over the phone is unparalleled 8:39 postal inspectors routinely tell 8:41 consumers work with their phone service 8:43 providers to stop robo and other 8:45 unwanted calls thank you for helping to 8:49 keep fraudulent calls from ever ringing 8:52 our phones in the first place I 8:53 appreciate the opportunity to share with 8:55 you the work that postal inspectors do 8:57 to protect veterans and safeguard the 8:59 American public from fraud inspector 9:02 Harris one of the advantages of the 9:05 Postal Service is there are post offices 9:08 everywhere in very small communities as 9:12 well as larger urban areas so tell us a 9:16 little bit about how you make sure that 9:18 this important flyer which warns 9:21 veterans about scams but also cleverly 9:25 has them fill out the surveys so that 9:28 you can get information and they get 9:30 more educated how are they distributed 9:34 and how do you advertise this program 9:38 yes chairman Collins thank you for that 9:40 question 9:41 there are over 30,000 post offices 9:44 across the country and the the post 9:47 office lobby is in 9:48 valuable real estate for the community 9:51 and as part of our efforts to put to 9:54 help spread the word raise awareness we 9:57 have placed these brochures in those 10:00 lobbies across the country we we did 10:03 that back in 2018 and we've received 10:07 many responses from them and we believe 10:10 that we have helped not only veterans 10:12 but the population in general by 10:14 highlighting the scams and schemes that 10:17 are out there and we hope it served as a 10:19 call to action to also share with others 10:21 as we seek to enlist everyone in the 10:24 fight against fraud by raising the 10:26 awareness and calling them to help 10:29 protect themselves and serve others in 10:31 their community thank you 10:33 Carol what is your because the Postal 10:36 Service is used so often to be again an 10:40 agent for this 10:41 are you finding more is it stabilizing 10:45 less what's the prognosis look for down 10:48 the road the Postal Service has no 10:52 interest in being an unwitting 10:54 participant in any of these scams or 10:56 schemes as long as there's commerce 10:59 there will be scams and schemes 11:01 hence the existence of the inspection 11:03 service our partnership with our other 11:05 federal state and local entities we're 11:08 going to continue to engage in the fight 11:10 it's still alive and well it evolves 11:13 robocalls and the good work of the 11:15 Senate to stop the robo calls an example 11:17 of a digital evolution but eventually 11:20 they connect to the mail we move 11:24 communications and commerce we move 11:25 physical goods and eventually the 11:29 conspiracies at times will work their 11:30 way into our web that's when we catch 11:33 them and we engage with our federal 11:34 partners we take a whole-of-government 11:35 approach so are your antenna more alert 11:39 now and do you have methods in policies 11:43 where you're starting to prevent it are 11:45 you generally reacting to a fait 11:49 accompli we use both we we believe 11:54 strongly in prevention prevention 11:55 messaging optimizing the messaging that 11:57 we give to the public and the American 11:59 consumer we also vigorously enforce the 12:02 law 12:02 as they're written so it's both and 12:05 we've been doing both for decades 12:09 thank you I cannot help but think about 12:13 a somewhat legal scam I'm just going to 12:16 say it that we you and I have been 12:19 working on and that is the elimination 12:20 of the veterans military widows Tax 12:24 Congress of the United States is 12:26 allowing that to be diverted and changed 12:29 and and I appreciate your work so much 12:31 on helping us and I'm still hopeful that 12:33 we can get that in our NDAA this year so 12:38 we can eliminate that scam once and for 12:40 all I would like to kind of focus 12:44 initially with my DEA buddy and and mr. 12:48 Harris because I know firsthand these 12:52 are difficult to track down and 12:55 prosecute and technology is changing and 12:57 it seems like when I was a prosecutor 13:00 and and even as a defense lawyer some it 13:03 seemed like that bad guys were always a 13:05 couple of steps ahead they they were 13:07 able to work and to do things so what 13:10 can what tools do you need are there 13:13 other tools that you could use right now 13:16 to both track down and prosecute I I 13:19 appreciate the idea of of deterring and 13:24 trying to make awareness and that's 13:25 wonderful 13:26 that we're trying to do that but we're 13:29 not going to stop this 13:30 I mean we're it's going to continue what 13:32 can we do as a Congress to give you 13:34 additional tools on both the state and 13:36 federal level to try to stop these guys 13:39 in their tracks so that these folks 13:40 don't last for years before they're 13:42 apprehended 13:47 thank you for the question senator the 13:50 inspection service has been in 13:50 consultation with the Department of 13:52 Justice to seek an expansion of our 13:56 administrative subpoena authority to be 13:58 on par with other Department of Justice 14:00 federal law enforcement agencies so that 14:03 we can do more quicker to fight frauds 14:06 or any other any of the other 200 14:08 federal statutes we enforce to maximize 14:11 the existence of our resource so that's 14:12 something that we're in consultation 14:15 with Department of Justice we believe 14:16 they're exploring a legislative approach 14:19 to to help us become on par with other 14:22 DOJ entities there so that's that's 14:24 something that can help with us your 14:25 continued support of our federal law 14:27 enforcement partners your efforts to 14:29 stop robo calls I applaud it if you 14:34 continue on that Lane I believe we are 14:36 making a dent and we're forcing the 14:38 criminal conspirators to evolve right 14:41 these scams come in many different forms 14:43 as you all have shared one of which was 14:46 highlighted in Arizona recently where 14:49 you have civilians who think they're 14:52 meeting a military member on a dating 14:54 app or some other way and they're 14:55 serving overseas and they need some help 14:57 and so this is where now civilians are 14:59 being roped into caring for our military 15:01 and Luke Air Force Base has said they're 15:04 receiving many calls from civilians 15:06 asking is this person really in the 15:08 military are they really deployed and 15:09 they're having to kind of help sort that 15:11 out so somehow now they're tying 15:13 people's love for our veterans in our 15:15 military and their willingness to help 15:16 to scam other civilians so this trend is 15:19 going up as well I don't know if you can 15:21 share anything on this perspective of 15:23 how we can because veterans and military 15:26 identity are basically being stolen to 15:28 create these false profiles for that so 15:30 any perspectives on that and da 15:32 Richardson or mr. Harris and what else 15:35 we can do in order to protect veterans 15:36 identities as well that they're scamming 15:38 others that everybody's getting scammed 15:40 in this 15:46 continued expansion of the messaging 15:47 we're providing generally speaking in 15:50 order to protect PII is something we 15:52 should we should do hearings like this 15:55 other community outreach identity theft 15:59 is an international epidemic veterans 16:01 are impacted just like the rest of 16:02 society we need to take a societal 16:05 approach to solving this a 16:07 whole-of-government approach from the 16:09 government side but it's also outside of 16:11 government it's being that foxhole buddy 16:13 for someone that needs a friend having 16:16 someone to check before you make a 16:17 financial decision Thank You mr. Harris 16:22 can the VA do more in your experience to 16:26 protect veterans thank you for the 16:32 question senator I'm incredibly thankful 16:35 for what the VA has done for me and 16:37 other veterans over the years I've been 16:38 a recipient of care at the VA had 16:40 multiple procedures we can always do 16:44 more any government entity can find 16:48 opportunity to do more and I appreciate 16:50 any attention guidance and oversight 16:52 that they're given so they can optimize 16:55 the way they watch out for care for 16:57 inform empower and inspire veterans but 17:03 I guess I know that you're sympathetic 17:05 to the VA and so on I I'm wondering 17:12 whether they devote enough resources to 17:17 making veterans aware alerting them and 17:19 also reporting doing the kind of work 17:24 that mr. wells has been doing with his 17:29 colleagues and fellow veterans should 17:32 they be doing more I can't speak as to 17:36 all of their their programs I'm not a 17:38 subject matter expert on it I can say 17:40 they have been a good partner of the 17:42 inspection service they have allowed us 17:43 to extend messaging through their 17:45 podcasts they have allowed us to extend 17:48 messaging on their blog but but I am NOT 17:52 a subject matter expert on exactly what 17:54 they have in place as far as prevention 17:56 programs besides the ones with which we 17:58 have partnered with them 18:00 well let me let me just say you know the 18:03 the Postal Service and postal inspectors 18:07 do great work in this area they are 18:11 really unappreciated I think in a lot of 18:15 what they do people think of law 18:16 enforcement as the FBI or the DEA but 18:20 what I found as US Attorney and then as 18:24 Attorney General was that the guys who 18:27 really put these cases together off and 18:29 the postal inspectors and they're able 18:30 to track down some of the perpetrators 18:34 of these frauds so I'm hopeful that the 18:39 VA can take advantage of those skills 18:41 and and make use of them better my time 18:44 is expired but I really appreciate all 18:45 of you being here today thank you very 18:47 much I know the VA has a hotline to deal 18:51 with they did entity throughout theft 18:53 what else should we be doing with regard 18:55 to identity theft how to help our 18:57 veterans because they should like my dad 18:59 my dad did you know probably would have 19:01 been a nice pretty easy target I would 19:04 echo what di Richardson shared enhanced 19:06 education and awareness with the target 19:09 audience and the veteran population they 19:11 have an incredible infrastructure with 19:13 which they can do this they have 19:14 face-to-face time through all the other 19:17 activities that already exist as part of 19:19 what the Department of Veterans Affairs 19:21 is doing to care for its veterans so I'd 19:23 say the opportunity exists and I 19:25 appreciate you asking that question my 19:28 first question which is for inspector 19:30 Harris and DA Richardson earlier this 19:33 year in this committee I shared the 19:35 story of Maggie who's elderly parents in 19:38 Tucson were robbed with their life 19:39 savings and a sweepstakes scam Maggie's 19:42 father is a 20-year veteran of the 19:44 United States Air Force living with 19:46 Alzheimer's and their family lost much 19:49 of what they had saved from his military 19:50 pension in cases like Maggie's family 19:53 and Jack's are there ways to help people 19:55 financially recover after they've been 19:58 robbed 19:58 can they get help through their military 20:00 pension requiring restitution from the 20:02 criminals the tax code and if there 20:05 aren't ways for them to get restitution 20:07 what barriers prevent veterans from 20:09 getting some of their life savings back 20:11 the challenge we face in some of the 20:13 investigations we conduct is that they 20:16 have been burning through in a typical 20:20 Ponzi scheme where they've spent what 20:22 they had from before so sometimes 20:24 getting assets to recover they just 20:27 don't exist they've they've already been 20:29 expended or distributed so in those 20:31 cases it's challenging one thing I do 20:34 feel compelled to share is through AARP 20:37 x' fraud watch Network families can 20:41 reach out and they can get a live person 20:43 that can help them navigate these 20:45 difficult circumstances if they think 20:47 they have a loved one who's being 20:48 victimized they can get help they can 20:50 get a live person they may not be able 20:52 to work these lines had been involved in 20:55 a scammer scheme before so they have a 20:57 deep passion they're not judgmental and 21:00 they can help people they can determine 21:01 resources they can help determine which 21:03 federal law enforcement agencies to 21:04 refer to and they can help with a level 21:08 setting of financial status to get 21:10 someone back on track in life thank you 21:13 so mr. Harris you've done great work 21:15 with operation protect veterans to raise 21:17 awareness investigating these horrible 21:19 scams as a veteran and Marine Corps 21:22 reservists yourself you know how to 21:24 communicate effectively about this 21:26 complicated issue but could but could 21:29 you use some help do you think the 21:31 federal government like the FTC could be 21:33 doing more to listen to experts like you 21:36 and to disseminate information regarding 21:38 mail telemarketing and Internet fraud 21:40 that target older Americans thank you 21:44 for the question senator I will always 21:45 welcome help our organization seeks to 21:48 partner actively we've worked well with 21:49 the FTC and other federal entities in 21:52 the past and we will continue to do so 21:54 to the best of our ability we believe in 21:56 sharing information D conflicting cases 21:59 using a whole-of-government approach to 22:01 bring the full bear of federal law 22:03 enforcement in cooperation with state 22:05 and local to get the best impact and 22:08 find all the facts what else can 22:10 Congress and the US government do to 22:12 verify legitimate veterans charity 22:14 organizations against fraudulent ones 22:16 what role should the federal government 22:18 play to ensure that the credibility of a 22:20 veteran's charity organization is 22:22 maintained and that individuals who want 22:24 to contribute or to volunteer these 22:26 organizations 22:26 can do so with full confidence that 22:29 they're not being scammed I'm aware of 22:31 the Department of Veterans Affairs list 22:33 they maintain to determine what is a 22:35 good charitable organization that can 22:36 support veterans I do not know how they 22:38 adjudicate that list but I welcome 22:41 support being given to them as subject 22:43 matter experts in the arena to make sure 22:45 that anyone who's interacting with a 22:47 veteran is not doing so with a nefarious 22:49 purpose thank you thank you very much 22:52 and you know that I totally agree with 22:54 you that the VA could do more in this 22:57 area just because they're a central 23:00 point of contact for so many veterans 23:03 and I know I said I'd asked my last 23:07 question but mr. Harris just a very 23:09 quick one for you this excellent 23:11 brochure that the Postal Service 23:14 Inspection Service has collaborated when 23:18 the with AARP on is this also in 23:22 addition to being in post office lobbies 23:26 is that also at VA clinics and hospitals 23:32 and c-bucs community veterans centers 23:39 thank you for that question chairman 23:41 Collins we've been in consultation with 23:43 the Department of Veterans Affairs and 23:44 seeking to get distribution through 23:46 their network today we have it well 23:49 that's something that I can assure you 23:51 we'll follow up on because a lot of 23:54 veterans have contact with the VA and 23:57 with community-based clinics and this 24:01 would be a great publication for them to 24:04 to pick up so thank you for your good 24:07 work 24:08 operation protect veterans seeks to 24:10 prevent scams through education vet to 24:14 vet in Maine uses comradery between 24:17 veterans as a way to fight back veterans 24:21 like mr. Forman who are also on the 24:23 lookout for their fellow veterans and 24:26 inspector Harris as well also play an 24:30 important role role and of course 24:32 there's no substitute for the kind of 24:35 persistence 24:36 that da Richardson and his staff 24:40 demonstrated in tracking down and 24:42 prosecuting these criminals like Senator 24:46 Casey I want the VA to step up its game 24:50 as well and assist us in in protecting 24:57 our veterans I am very appreciative of 25:00 your all being here today as the 25:03 daughter of a World War two veteran who 25:05 was wounded twice and the Battle of the 25:07 Bulge this is an issue that matters 25:11 greatly to me as well and I'm sure we'll 25:15 continue our efforts to combat it as I 25:19 know our witnesses will so thank you all 25:23 for being here this hearing is now 25:25 adjourned 25:27 [Music] 25:45 [Music]